Below is a sneak peek of this content!
Some years ago, a baseball executive of some renown was talking about Mike Mussina, and he said something that I will never forget. He said: "You know what? The best way I can describe Moose is -- the guy's just a mensch." That's a complicated scouting report. Mensch is a...
Hello. You're probably seeing this boring paragraph because you haven't signed up yet to become a member. You can sign up here. We have a lot of fun here -- we're counting down the 100 best major league players of all time, writing a lot about baseball and dieting and family and music and other sports and geek tech and infomercials and, you know, whatever comes to mind. Would love to have you join us. There's also a chance that you're reading this because you can't sign in -- if that's the case, please click here and you can go to "posts" and see all the stories and stuff directly on the Patreon membership site.
Unlock with Patreon
A true pro, and a guy I always wished was on my team. He was brilliant in that 97 ALCS, and as a Tribe fan, I was thrilled when the Os yanked him in Game 6.
I think it was Bill James who did a “Who would you rather have?” poll on Twitter with Moose & Schilling. And I guess it’s a question of what you value and what you could stand to put up with: dominance versus steadiness, volatility versus consistency, an ability to rise to the occasion versus a knack for playing your game under any situation. Even leaving aside the creepiness of Schilling’s post-playing career, I’d take Moose in a heartbeat. Their career value was similar and there’s a lot to be said about a guy who doesn’t make his job any harder than it needs to be. Schilling made everything harder than it needed to be, on the mound and off it.
Whichever you would take, it’s a shame that both of them aren’t in the Hall already. Mussina will probably make it this year. I still think Schilling will get voted in by the BBWAA, but it might not be until his last vote.
I think they both get in, Mussina this year. Schilling’s vote totals seem to be paralleling Bonds’s and Clemens’s and it wouldn’t surprise me if all three got in at the same time. That’s what I want, anyway.
Maybe I just read the wrong people, but all the sportswriters I follow think both are no brainers. And if his vote totals rise at the rate they have been, statistically he’s a lock. Only one player has ever received 60% of the vote and not eventually made it.
Great explanation of Mentch! I’m always trying to find a way to translate and into English and just can’t get it right. Funny to find it in a baseball blog 🙂
I have another word for Mussina – meh.
Certainly had a ton of talent and went to the mound almost every time he was scheduled, however he was playing on some really good Yankee teams with really good set up guys and the greatest, by far, closer of all time and you’d expect more. He knew all he needed to do is get to the 7th and he could turn the ball over for a win and he still never won 70% of his games with the Yankees. He seemed to be just a Cone, Wells or even El Duque but over a longer time span. If you are going to go sign a big contract with the best team I would expect at least one off the charts season, but we never got that from him. Even his post season is “Ok” (if you take out 1997 then its truly “Meh”).
Watched a number of games for all these guys. Me thinks Moose would be perfectly happy to be in the Cone & El Duque club. It’s great to be a hero in Cooperstown, but to be a Yankee hero in NY is — shall we say — ++. While everyone enjoyed Wells pitching & Steinbrenner shennanigans, not sure Yankees fans would include him with those three.
Are you valuing pitcher wins too much? Joe just told us (and I agree) that Mussina was the best pitcher in the league in 2001, his first season with those “really good Yankee teams”. But he was only 17-11, and his teammate was 20-3, which looks like a much more “off the charts” season. There are a lot of great pitching seasons that appear merely good if you only look at wins and ERA.
And this is part of the trouble with using “Wins” as a significant part of the conversation: They’re subject to so much variability, so much that’s out of the pitcher’s control. He may have been blessed with a Mariano Rivera-anchored bullpen for most of his years as a Yankee, but he spent an awful lot of his best years handing the ball of to the likes of Doug Jones, Armando Benitez, and Mike Timlin, though to be fair Randy Myers and Gregg Olson were both pretty solid, if not exactly Mr. Automatic.
Furthermore, the Orioles only had a winning record in 5 of the 10 years he spent in Baltimore, and made the playoffs only twice. Even with the Yankees, he didn’t always get the run support you’d expect. I looked at his 2001 season and figured out that if you just swapped all of Roger Clemens’ run support in his starts with what Moose got that year, he’d have finished something like 23-6 and would have easily won the CYA that year. You’re looking for an “off the charts” season? That was it. He led the AL in WAR, but finished behind 38-year old Jamie Moyer in the Cy young voting because he had 20 of the Mariners’ 116 Wins.
Or 1992, when Moose was 2nd in the AL with 8.2 WAR (more than any single season by Clayton Kershaw (!), Felix Hernandez, Tim Lincecum, David Price, CC Sabathia orJake Peavy, and more than Max Scherzer has ever had in any of the three seasons in which he’s won the award. That’s how good he was that year. Admittedly, Clemens was even better, and deserved the award over both Eckersley and Mussina, but still, Moose was damn good.
People forget about his performance in the “Aaron Boone” game. With the Yankees down 4-0 in the 4th, and men on 1st and 3rd with no outs, Mussina came in to relieve. Strike-out, double play, and then 3 scoreless innings (2 hits, no walks, of course). If not for Mussina, Boone never gets a chance to hit that HR.
Super late but just signed up and was going to say this. Boone was the hero of the game for the home run, Rivera for his three innings, Posada for his back breaking double…but I’ve always insisted Mussina was the true hero of that game. A double play or a sac fly on that first batter, neither of which anyone could possibly blame him for, and we all talk about the Red Sox in the World Series in 2003.
He and Zack G. (and to some extent El Duke A) always reminded me of each other (say Maddox light). Elite athletes who were smart, and could put the ball anywhere they wanted to with multiple pitches.
I never knew that about the 2001 Cy Young voting. I knew Clemens won it, I think he was 20-1 at one point, which probably did the trick as far as Cy Voting goes.
But I didn’t realize how clear cut the Cy Young voting should have been. Pretty amazing.
Joe Mays actually had a really good year for the Twins, and he got stiffed even worse: no Cy Young consideration at all, despite leading the league in ERA+ and finishing second in WAR, just half a win behind Mussina and 0.9 ahead of Clemens.